4E Magic Items Leave me Cold and Indecisive
Wednesday, April 1, 2009 at 07:23AM While my issues with 4E persist, you clever readers have already addressed my most serious concerns with last week's comments on Samey Battles. I'm hopeful that, with your advice, my upcoming session pitting 22nd-level heroes against cthulhu-esque horrors on the bottom of the ocean will be my best yet.
With that, please read my next gripe on 4E—magic items.
I really love outfitting my heroes, scavving the battlefield, and rolling on random treasure tables. Loot is generally awesome, and it has always, until just recently, been enjoyable for me to crack open a Magic Item chapter and absorb some fluff while developing tactics for my current characters around this powerful trinket or that quirky relic.
I think you know where I’m going here.
Can’t I just save up for items from 3E?
I rolled a couple of backup characters for my current 4E campaign and stalled out on choosing magic items. I kept flipping through the pages, trying to find something as cool as the items from previous editions of D&D, always hoping that the next page (or the previous) held the items that I wanted to buy. Eventually I settled on a handful of items that I wasn’t excited about using (cue red-alert klaxons). Worse, two of my players reported the exact same problem.
Ah, screw it.
The addition of the Adventurer’s Vault to my library hasn’t solved this problem as the magic items are all built using the same system. It seems flawed to me. At the very least it doesn’t mesh with what I want from magic items in my games. I want it to be difficult to choose magic items because there are too many attractive choices, not too few. I want to enjoy reading about magic items, not consider it a chore.
In short, the items at our disposal just didn’t appeal.
Why?
I believe this is because the “coolest” abilities (like flaming weapons dealing additional fire damage) are almost always usable once an encounter or once daily, and they usually last only one round. Also, I understand you are only able to use a single daily power from any of your magic items, dependent on level and completed milestones (so, dependent on your DM and game style). This system really doesn’t seem to require more limitations on magic items, but there they are.
Even those items that do create more interesting effects, like the armors that transform you into vapor or liquid, are short-lived and exact a hit point toll that I hardly consider necessary. In short, the designers turned what I consider a pretty cool ability into something less cool—why would you want to pay for using the magic item that you already bought or fought for?
And, naturally, reading the stripped-down 4E magic item statistics blocks can’t really be done to enjoy the item history or any extended description—those things no longer exist. That text is certainly unnecessary, but I feel the lack of fluff (which I’ve always found useful for developing plot hooks and adventure ideas) whenever I open the monster manual or create treasure parcels for my players.
So it works, but is it fun?
I’m sure it’s all very well balanced, but I want choosing and using magic items (D&D cornerstones) to be fun again. Without considerable tweaking I'm not sure how to make that happen.
Do you?
Boring Magic Items in 4E, Magic Items 
Reader Comments (16)
Use magic items from prior editions? Even if combat-balance is a concern, there must be hundreds of items that can be used as is, or just by translating durations. If your armor can turn you ethereal for an hour once per day (or whatever) how is that not usable in 4e?
I find that the "typical" magic item in 4ed is meant to be viewed as a tool. It supplements and enhances what a character already has. I believe what you are looking for are now considered artifacts. It is actually a very interesting section of the DMG.
Plus, don't forget about those wondrous items. I always have to resist stocking up on those instead of weapons and armor. Who doesn't want an instant campsite or a figurine that summons a spectral soldier?
I totally want an instant campsite AND a spectral soldier, DeadGod! :D
I think you're right about the typical magic items, and I've yet to read much of the artifacts.(I will do so now on your advice, right after I spend some more time with the wondrous items).
Well, you're right, Joshua. Many items from previous editions could be used, or tweaked and then used, in 4E. No question.
Obviously this does open up potential balance issues in mechanics and player wealth, but that's all fine. My real point is that the typical 4E magic item is boring (so boring that I became blasé about choosing them) and where they aren't boring they're often strictly limited in their use.
Not a huge deal in comparison to my other concerns, and 4E is still young.
Magic Items is one of the systems in 4e that me and the other Gm in the group have been debating what to do about. Not them in particular, in fact we just got our first magic item the other day and the player who got it was excited beyond belief (a +1 resounding warhammer. I believer her first word was "OOOOO!"). But the "1 magic item a day until you hit a milestone" thing. That just doesn't sit well with us. We're currently debating if and how to change that
I think the way the powers and sort of "dropped on to" the magic item lends itself to a mix and match. Don't like the powers given a dagger? Grab one from a sword instead. Also, if you don't care for the brief flavor text on each item (I'm a 4E player and I hate how they cheaped out on this), simply create your background for each item.
I agree with DeadGod about the "tool" thing. The "limited use" feature of each item is suppose to be a balancing feature, so each item ties in better with the level of the character using it. That way, even if a low-level character gets a high level item, the "special power" of that high level item won't overbalance the game.
Maybe one solution (to add more uses of a magic item between rests) would be to allow the character to sacrifice a healing surge to use the item again. That way, the character has to make careful choices about whether or not to use an item more than it's "normal" amount (strain on the psyche/soul/health) etc.
I always make my own magic items, suited to the characters. Our ranger has a scimitar that isn't magic, but it does have a space in the hilt for poison, and a catch that releases it to run down the blade, transforming coating a weapon with poison from a standard action you have to take before a battle to a minor action you can take during one. Our paladin of Torog, who might end up going against the party, just got an amulet that lets him do an extra 1d10 damage to anyone he drops below 0 (1/encounter) and heal that same amount. (I'm kind of evil.)
So, yeah. 4e's magic items don't do it for me, either. But then again, I started out in a 1e party that had only one magic item - the +1 flail our cleric rolled up when she started out. And we were all lvl 5. So to me, any magic item is kind of exciting, and this showering down of +2 armors of flamingness upon the party is kind of weird.
I think all the tricks we've always used to make magic items more interesting will still do the same. Give items histories tied to your campaign world, play with the identification process, throw in an intelligent or cursed item, don't skimp on the neat wonderous items (of which we need more, more, more). If you are worried that "using up" a parcel on an instant campsite might hurt the group, then throw in items like that outside of the parcel system. If you find some cool flavor items from previous editions like a Robe of Useful Items (which I don't *think* is in 4e yet), make one up. Items from any edition like this, that are neat and flavorful but don't have a huge impact on character mechanics, are easy to slide right into the game.
All in all, I agree that some 'neatness' has been lost in 4e, but I understand why. There was a lot of bland item flavor in 3e as well and a whole lot of item dependence (ability boosters, anyone) built in. There isn't much unique to the fourth +1 flaming longsword from the end in the item shop. It was always the other items that made things interesting. Design your own unique items, give them some flavor and I think the players will respond.
In my last session, the players were trapped in a nightmare played out as a skill challenge, pulled there by some dark link one of the PCs has to the Far Realm. While each faced personal demons, Kord took the opportunity to test one of his faithful as he rises in power. The party cleric passed the tests with flying colors, which were all centered around a holy sword of Kord. When he awoke, that blade was in his room, instead of his nonmagical fullblade. It was both a adamantium fullblade and a Fist of Kord made up the guard. The player was quite excited about this new item. I intend for that item to occasionally 'level' at some appropriate moment.
Good luck with your next session - epic play, aberrations, underwater - sign me up!
Yeah, the basic magic items are pretty boring in 4e. That's the case in all editions, though. A sword +1 is a sword +1, and a flametongue isn't all that much more exciting mechanically.
Wondrous items, rings, and artifacts are where most of the cool stuff is, and you could start by looking there. I've always preferred making up my own items, though, beyond the standard stuff. The tricks for that are still the same: a name, a history, a quirk or two, a purpose.
I share a little "disenchantment" (sorry) with you, and your other posters, regarding 4e magic items. One of the things that has bothered me is purely cosmetic: the excessive and repetitious tables in, for example, the Adventurer's Vault book. That alone numbs me a bit to 4e magic.
They do seem to be flavorless tools. Something I've tried to overcome by adding descriptions (as others have also suggested) to those I use to make them somewhat more unique.
I love the suggestion of combining a couple of the functions into a new item, or as Thasmodious suggested, evolving or leveling the item as play progresses.
I'd start looking at 4e rituals and other similar mechanics for inspiration. Functions that already exist in the game that can be grafted to items in order to make them more interesting. Maybe it's just a passive property of the item (say a magical bow with an totem-pole-like series of animals engraved on it that gives "animal messenger" power), or a quirky side-effect (say a holy avenger that makes you 8 ft tall, and glow with a white radiance. Not an original of mine, but fun.)
Anything to jog players into finding creative uses for the item, or requires them to hide its effects to avoid detection. (The aforementioned sword was problematic when drawn in an evil temple, for example.)
@anarkeith: That reminds me of an offhand comment one of my players made, about how the ability to cast rituals at-will would be an interesting power. A magic item that could cast a certain ritual daily or once per encounter would be a lot of fun, especially for a part that's short on rituals, or can't access that ritual yet. Oh, the mischief we've gotten up to with Tenser's Floating Disc...
What I hate are the "levels" of items (especially the stuff that pushes things in to different tiers) in 4E and the built-in save bonuses with many items that make them all feel the same. Oh and that potions require spending healing surges (another one of the balance bugaboos), that slots make the game feel even more like a CRPG, and that many items have a half-dozen versions ranging from +1 to +6.... oh and that magic items MUST be given out in order for the combat system to remain balanced; otherwise by about level 10 PCs fall way behind their properly scaled opponents.... hmmm, now that I think of it, I don't think there's anything I like about 4E magic items at all.
Again, just some amazing comments and solid advice here, folks. I love it. Thank you.
Hey Justaguy, you could try linking the use of those encounter/daily magic items to action points and/or healing surges (as Dead Orcs suggested after your comment). The limited use rules for these is an issue for a lot of people I've spoken to. I plan to house-rule something agreeable for next sesion.
Good idea, Dead Orcs. Obviously many of the magiccal properties have restrictions on the type of item they can apply to, but those are the kinds of restrictions that beg to be bent or broken in the name of cooler gaming.
Heya Swordgleam, cool scimitar! I played an inventive dart-throwing gnome rogue in the Scarred Lands campaign setting years back, and he created special darts that could be filled with holy water, acid, alchemist's fire—whatever, to deliver a concentrated dose to the target at range.
Anyway, I generally enjoy tinkering with magic and interesting items of my own designs, but when sometimes I'd really like to quickly and easily build a treasure parcel and feel like the PCs will like what they find.
Hey Thasmodious, I think you're right. I do need to tinker with the magic items by adding the histories or purposes, or create all-new items of my own. It would be nice not to have to, though. You're right about 3E items, too, but at least they were generally "limitless"—that flaming sword from the end operated at peak efficiency all day long.
I love your skill challenge/adventure idea, and thanks for the well-wishes in my next session. We'll see how the players like it. :)
Heya, Scott, I'm adding your list there ("a name, a history, a quirk or two, a purpose") to my design stages. It's good for that stuff to be laid out in checklists. I'll try it out in the upcoming session.
Anarkeith—yes! I'm a big fan of 4E rituals, and I like where you and Swordgleam are going with this.
Adding descriptions is a great idea, and always advisable I think, but DMing 4E is really starting to become a lot more work than I once thought it would be. This may be a topic of its own, but it seems a DM has to work really hard to run the sort of game he/she wants to run (depending, of course, on what sort of game that is).
The general concensus seems to support this, and maybe that's part of why many people are disappointed with 4E—my preconceptions of simpler, MMO-style play convinced me that 4E was going to be quick and breezy and easy to run. Imagine my disappointment when I found out it was still crunchy D&D (which I love). The irony, coupled with my inability to manage my expectations, is crushing me...
Anyway, a random thought that I should explore a bit more elsewhere. :)
Hey MJ, I thought you might weigh in, and I hear you. I had/have many of the exact same issues with the magic items. Fortunately, I think that much of the advice from the other commentors should mitigate some of these (and owning more Adventurer's Vaults will mitigate some of the others), but once again it's going to take some work to mould 4E into what we're looking for... that in itself isn't surprising or terribly odd with any game system, I don't think.
For 4E, for some reason, that extra 2d10 miles the DM's gotta walk to make that happen is feeling terribly onerous. I wonder why that is.
Thanks again, everyone. Have a good gaming week.
I feel like 4e is a lot easier to run. Then again, my only real comparison is tri-stat, where I had to make everything. It's nice to just flip open a book and go.
That said, I still don't understand why I give my players half a dozen plot hooks pointing north, south and west, and they go east. I guess that's just how it goes, though.
My other solution with magic items is to use all of them. Hand out swords with properties stolen from rods, etc. It gives you a lot more to choose from, even just in the PHB.
I have never had a problem with 4e's magic items, and find many of them plenty interesting (about as interesting as 3e's magic items, which is to say not much really, as I don't read my rules texts to be entertained).
What I do is to remove the silly "you can only use x magic item daily powers per day" restriction. If a character has 3 magic items with daily powers at heroic tier, I let him use all three once – not just 1 because the game feels like it. Now THAT feels a little dumb.
The items themselves are fine for me. Just rules texts and a little support effect to the character's already formidable arsenal (in 4e, character powers are supposed to be better than anything they can purchase, so this is a feature). I don't ask for anything more than that.
Good tip, Swordgleam. As I'm currently running one-shots I haven't built more than a handful of treasure parcels, and, knowing anything I hand out wil be obsolete next session, I haven't bent over backwards on customization. I'm betting that your tip here will help keep me and my players interested in items across sessions, even those spanning several levels.
I do want to be entertained by the rules texts, Wyatt. Or, more accurately, I want to pass that entertainment onto my players bu buiolding it into my game world. I hear what you're saying, though—I haven't heard from anyone who thinks the limit on daily item powers is a fun concept.
(in 4e, character powers are supposed to be better than anything they can purchase, so this is a feature).
Interesting. That's another design principle that I don't understand—it just doesn't seem to add to the fun factor to limit magic items that way.
I also think that 4e magic items are incredibly boring.
Now this might be exactly the opposite of what you are looking for ... but check out this guy's suggestion about using the "inherent bonus system" in the DMG2:
http://rpg.brouhaha.us/?p=2501
The idea is that you use the inherent bonuses to keep the PCs scaled to the monsters, and then hand out very few (and fairly minor) magic items - which makes them more "special."
Standing alone, I don't think this is too exciting, but combined with some of the other suggestions relating to artifacts and rituals, I think magic items could recapture a certain "wondrous" feel.